Daniel On Fluoride

Councillor Daniel Says Fluoridation Isn’t Good for Kapiti

By Cr Peter Daniel
May 19, 2010

In March 2009m water fluoridation was halted for two years in Kaikohe and Kaitaia.

A referendum was decided on to see if people wanted to resume. MOH and their experts did a huge amount of lobbying and spent a lot of money advertising to convince these people of the values of fluoridation.

Fluoridation Abolished

There was great air of confidence from them. Many in council were also enthusiastic to resume fluoridation. But today news has come through, the people have spoken and MOH and Council have failed, fluoridation is finished. A severe blow for the health authorities.

Health authorities are now having to cope with huge numbers of PHd studies and check it more often– many peer reviewed and available to everybody on the Internet, including a whole array of serious side effects caused by sodium fluoride.

Pro fluoridationists dismiss every single study and call us ‘Flat Earthers’, could it be that the opposite is true?

Fluoride is not an essential nutritional requirement. To date no government agency  in a fluoridated country has done one single scientific study to evaluate possible future side effects from using fluoride. Millions of dollars are spent though extolling it’s virtues.

California Experience Cited

This is how good fluoride is for the teeth. Professor Dr. Kennedy, Past President of International Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology, a dentist for 20 years and a third-generation dentist, met an elderly dentist from Chula Vista in California (population 227723).

The dentist  took umbrage with Dr kennedy with his position opposing water fluoridation. As his comment is here, he claimed that, over the last 50 years in his practice, he had personally witnessed the tremendous benefit of water fluoridation in Chula Vista. Many dentists also suggests for dental implants upper jaw if they need the best dental implants.

When Dr Kennedy pointed out that Chula Vista was a nonfluoridated community, he appeared disoriented and mumbled, “It had to be the fluoride. Tooth decay is not nearly as prevalent as when I began to practice 50 years ago.”

‘Lucrative Toxic Garbage Cans’

We are lucrative toxic garbage cans for the corporations. This poison is more toxic that lead and slightly less that arsenic. One dose suits all no matter how much you drink, It is bottle fed babies staple diet.

The medical magazine the Lancet says that is close to being categorised as a neurotoxin. It is used in Sarin Gas, atomic bombs, 1080 poison, rat poisons, insecticides and anti depressants.

It will one day make DDT, Tobacco, thalydomide. lead and asbestos look like harmless candy bars. The litigation will be beyond belief, be prepared!

Something like 80% of the population ‘when asked’ say they don’t like mass medication. So as a protest why not just leave your taps running until the fluoride is removed. Even if only 50% of households did this I’m sure KCDC would feel it. This is a protest action you can do without even leaving the house … it is the sort of thing even fluoride consuming apathetic people can do.
In fact turning your taps off will be seen as supporting the status quo.

PS make sure it is only the cold tap left on 😉

Hi Matthew, you obviously did not get my point. Why would you agree with peoples right to not have fluoride added to their water, only if you are allowed to win a similar argument on woodburners and wood smoke? Well, here you go – I will let you win the agrument on weoodburners, although I wasn’t aware we were having an argument about that.
And if you feel so strongly about wood burners why don’t you state a campaign to have them stopped? Or do you think we should do that for you?

Hey Mary, I’d happily let you win an argument based on rights on fluoride, which is to me a non-issue, if I was allowed to win a similar argument on woodburners and wood smoke. I definitely don’t want to breathe wood smoke at all. I think my right not to should be protected by law. The Kapiti District Council doesn’t think I have a right to clean air. Their compliance team has told me people have a “right” to burn off. What’s Peter Daniel doing on woodsmoke? Woodsmoke is a helluva lot more important to me than fluoridation.

Yeah Peter, what is your position on wood smoke? Are you going to help to keep toxins out of our air, like you are trying to do with keeping toxins out of our water? Are you going to help the people of Raumati South with wood burner induced pollution and are you going to help the rural zone with problems from laissez-fair burning off? Are you going to support a ban on the installation of woodburners?Are you going to call for wood burners to be banned? Are you going to ask the compliance and monitoring team to stop issuing permits to burn off when the neighbours object to the permits?

Fluoride in water is a bit like fortifying bread and breakfast cereals with vitamins and folates. There is a public good from it. Ever heard of mineral water, or do you want distilled water to come out of your taps?

To me it is a huge inconsistency to get upset about fluoride, and be ignorant and silent about wood smoke pollution.

Matthew and Robin,
What you pro-fluoridationists do not seem to understand is the concept of sharing and the right of individuals to refuse medication. These are principals that are in line with the Human Rights Bill and the US Constitution. We shouldn’t have to argue whether or not fluoride is good for teeth. It is a public water supply that we all pay for equally. If you want fluoride you can easily get it through toothpaste or buy some fluoride tablets if you really feel you need more. It is near on impossible to avoid fluoride if it is in the public water supply as people are forced to bathe and shower in it even if they do pay the extra cost of buying bottled water, going to Petone to get clean water, or having a filter on their tap. To me, this shows a huge lack of respect for other peoples opinions and rights. You couldn’t come into my house and add this chemical into my drink just because you think it’s good for my teeth. In fact, you would be arrested if you did that. How on earth can it be okay for councillors to do that via the public water supply? Please start respecting other peoples rights.

Peter and Ross,

The slweb.org stuff isn’t all that convincing, and it ‘s links put me back onto the more credible stuff, where the for arguments are more convincingly made. Fluorine is a poisonous gas, but when it is in a compound it has different chemical properties. Chlorine is also a poisonous gas, but put it in a compound, like salt and well it’s no longer poisonous. You’re not helping your case Peter with every word used after ‘Lucrative Toxic Garbage Cans’. And I don’t think you help your case with trying to draw parallels with women’s emancipation, save Manapouri, or the anti smoking successes. Each one of them had a sound and logical case. Anti-fluoridation people, by embracing the weirder and wackier ideas, are struggling to make a wholly convincing argument. Cut through the crap, and get to the core of the issue. Get all the nut jobs to shoosh, and present the core findings about the toxicity and safe levels of each and every fluoridation chemical that is actually used, but not the weird and wonderful world of chemical compounds that may have fluorine in it, and forget the talk about thalidomide, and DDT and lead and arsenic. It’s all got nothing to do with it.

I am not hostile to your cause, but I am not convinced by your cause.

I do however wonder why you are getting traction with what is basically a non-issue, where as I am getting nowhere with my efforts to raise awareness with a very real issue about toxic chemicals in our society, namely those in wood smoke, and which all your arguments about forcing people to ingest chemicals should be being made. So what do the anti-fluoridation people make of a real issue, with real science and real harm being done?


Back in the 1950’s anti fluoridationist’s were investigated in Hastings by the police to see if it was a communist plot. Since that day there have been various derogatory comments made about such people and at least one such person was destroyed by it. Flat Earthers, fanatics and terrorists (It happened the other night) and a whole lot of other such derogatory comments. But this sort of behavior is not knew. What about ‘Reds under the bed’ during the McCarthy era. Such derogatory language never stopped Woman’s rights campaigners in NZ or Save Manapouri, or save Whirinaki and Poureora Forests, or the anti smoking lobby. Closer to home the personal battle I had with a huge Govt Department of the time who said it was impossible to rid Kapiti Island of possums tried very hard to halt the program, they hated me. We eradicated all the possums. I believe there is such a thing as intellect and no matter what side of the fence one is on displaying this sort of behavior is certainly not intellectual. I have yet to hear an anti fluoridationist responding with the same unfortunate language. You only have to see the masses of graphs on both sides of the argument to see that this is indeed a medical experiment. After the Second World War at Nuremberg it was decided that never again would a human being be experimented on without that persons prior knowledge of what the experiment was and without his or her explicit permission. Millions of human beings are being medicated with fluoride with no knowledge at all of it happening.
To put it into perspective though, more than 6.5 billion people on the planet are not fluoridated and I am sure we that are against fluoridation will have a vast majority of friends opposing it, India and China for starters. How is your pineal gland, your thyroid gland your brain your bones and your kidneys, are you sure they are okay? Have a look at the peer reviewed PhD’s studies done on all of these in relation to fluoride. The health Authorities give them no credence. If these studies are not good enough what is?

I’m surprised at you Peter. Perhaps you should explore a little more into the science behind this debate. Pseudo science and anecdotal evidence does not have a place in this serious issue. It may be necessary to take a case for damages against the council on behalf of future generations of children. I suppose if you are a member of the flat earth society you will be led whever nutters have picnics.

For Matthew to say that at best the anti-fluoridation people are relying on anecdotal evidence and that listening to them is a bit like listening to homeopaths shows how misinformed he is on the fluoridation issue.
I challenge him to visit the most exhaustive bibliography on the toxicology and bodily effects of fluoride at http://www.slweb.org or check the archives of the international journal Fluoride (just for starters) to determine how firm the evidence is against putting fluoride into community water supplies.
Advocates of fluoridation, particularly dental health establishments, take a myopic view of fluoridation and their policies are a decades out of date.
They also ignore the ethical issues associated with forcing many people against their will to deal with a toxic substance in the water coming out of their taps.
Only a fraction of 1% of a reticulated public water supply is used for drinking and current evidence is that fluoride works best by brushing it on to the surface of teeth and not by swallowing it
Fluoridation is not cost-effective and a waste of ratepayer money. The Kapiti Coast District Council should stop it and let the DHB get on with providing other ways of improving dental health.

At best I’ve seen the anti-fluoridation people trying proof by anecdote, and by invalid analogy.
Fluorine is a halogen. It is the lightest halogen. Chlorine, Bromine and Iodine are more halogens. Our bodies use and need each of the halogens in different ways. Salt with it’s chlorine ions is needed to keep us alive. Iodine prevents goitre. Fluoride is good for our teeth.

DDT, tobacco, thalydomide, lead and asbestos have nothing to do with it.

Listening to the anti-fluoride people is a bit like listening to homeopaths.


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